Re: What are the rust removal products made out of?

>What are the rust removal products made out of?

>Hi,saw your article on rust.

Well, not mine personally, but some Mad Scientists'...

Here are two old questions with useful answers. My system won't html
format this text, so you'll have to copy the address and paste it into the
address part of a web browser.

How do rust converter products work?
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/aug97/866467542.Ch.q.html

Why do things rust and how can you make rust? 
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar97/855003371.Ch.q.html

>Wonder if you could answer a question?

Fire away!

>Do you know what the new user friendly, environment friendly products
> for rust removal are made of?
>I currently dip my antique auto parts in phosphoric acid and water solution
>This removes rust but is not user friendly.The new products have a low 
>pH

Note that acids have low pH, neutral solutions have pH about 7 and alkalis
have high pH. Alkalis are, if anything, more dangerous to living organisms.

> no fumes,no acid burns, and supply a degree of rust prevention to the
>metal surface. 

The only one I know of is called Rustmaster, and here I am relying entirely
on a textbook: Chemical Principles; 2nd ed (1995); Zumdahl, SS; DC Heath & Co.

"Rustmaster is a water-based polymer formulation that prevents corrosion
in two different ways.
"First, the polymer layer that cures in air forms a barrier.
"Second, the chemicals in the coating react with the steel surface to produce
and interlayer between the polymer and the steel surface.
"This interlayer is the real secret...motion of ions must be possible for 
rusting to occur...the interlayer grows into the polymer layer, thus 
preventing the movement of ions."
I'm quoting from p474 of the 2nd edition, where there are many more details.

In essence then, this non-acidic water-based (no organic solvents) paint
contains polymer precursors and ions (such as Mg2+, Zn2+, Co2+, Ni2+, Al3+
Mn3+, Co3+, Ni3+, carbonate, chloride and/or sulphate) and will dry to form
what I suspect is a useful primer layer.

This sounds like what you meant.

>Also I've heard of adding chromium acetate to the phosphoric acid for rust 
>conversion to a primer.

(I call acetate, 'ethanoate', to keep in line with modern conventions)

I'm not familiar with this method so I'll have a guess:
I suspect that iron ethanoate forms and provides similar protection to iron
phosphate with possibly less protection but more bonding to additional layers of
paint. The chromium? Maybe this is deposited and provides a degree of chrome-
plating type protection as well.

>Are you familiar?

I like to think that I'm friendly, but not over-familiar 8-)